Information on Merchant Accounts,
Ecommerce and Credit Card Processing

March 21st, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Online Customer Service – 5 Rules to Live By

Filed in: Guides | 1 comment

Providing good customer support is absolutely key to running a successful online business. It is also one of the most time consuming aspects of running an ecommerce website. And, it is one of the most overlooked aspects of online businesses. Taking a step away from the traditional brick and mortar business, business owners often get the idea that support is not an issue in ecommerce.

Unfortunately, no matter how well you run your business, you will eventually end up with some dissatisfied customers. Shipments get lost, things get back-ordered, people simply make mistakes, and some customers will not be happy no matter what level of service you give them. What is important is that you adequately correct situations where customers are upset, and that you attempt to prevent area of poor service before they become a problem for your customers.

These are five simple rules of customer service that I think are essential to providing good support for online businesses.

#1 – Maintain contact
This is the most important and often most ignored idea behind customer service. If you receive an email from your customer stating that they are upset with something, or something went wrong with their order, acknowledge them immediately. Nothing is worse than being ignored by a business that you purchased something from. By immediately, I mean immediately. One or two hours tops. Not two or three days, or never. Even if you don’t have a good answer for them, let them know that you got their message and that you will get back to them in a reasonable amount of time. If you don’t acknowledge them fast enough, you can expect a phone call within a few hours. Ignoring problems will never make them go away…

#2 – Learn how to apologize
Something that is almost as bad as getting no response is getting something that tries to place the blame of the situation on the customer. This is a sure-fire way to lose you customer forever, and you can be sure that they will tell their story to others. Seth Godin wrote a great article about how to apologize. The old saying ‘the customer is always right’ still applies to online business. If your business is any way was responsible for the error, apologize.

#3 – Respond quickly
This doesn’t have to be strictly related to complaints or problems. If a customer fills out a contact form, get back to them within the hour. If they email you, get back within an hour. Unless you have so many requests that you cannot possibly respond quickly, or it is the middle of the night and your business is closed, there is no reason it should take any longer. The internet is all about convenience, speed and efficiency. Don’t let the only area requiring human interaction ruin your customer’s experience.

#4 – Let visitors actually contact you
So I ordered that part for overnight delivery and you sent the wrong one, I need the correct one now! It gets really frustrating not being able to get a person on the phone, when something is really urgent. If I email you, it will probably be a day before you get back to me, and that’s simply unacceptable, so i need to get you on the phone. Just because your business is online, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t answer the phone. If nobody is really available and I leave a message, refer to #1 and #3. Also, make sure that you have a customer support number (preferably toll free) and that it is plastered all over your website.

#5 – Prevent bad experiences
This one seems obvious, but I can’t count how many times I have ordered something to later find it was back-ordered. If you don’t have something in-stock, don’t list it as available. If something is discontinued, make a recommendation for a similar item. Most importantly, don’t ever make promises that you cannot deliver on. This is one of the quickest ways to sour your customer’s opinions of your business. Try to over-deliver on everything no matter how insignificant it seems. If you tell your customers that a shipment should take six days, try to get it to them in four. Every time you impress your customer by exceeding their expectations, you increase the chance that they will do business with you again, or that they will refer their friend to you.


March 12th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Did you know, refunds are calculated into your chargeback ratio?

Filed in: Fraud, Merchant Accounts | 2 comments

Visa and MasterCard have two scores used to help calculate how risky a business is that processes with them. Of these scores, one is based on chargebacks, and one is based on returns. Now, two scores may make the title of this seem misleading, but for reasons of simplicity, many processors combine these into a single number for risk assessment.

Customer Refund
What this means:
This essentially means that a business’s merchant account can be shut down, the business can be penalized, or they can even be placed on the TMF (Match File) for having too many chargebacks or ‘too many returns’.

You’ve got to be kidding me:
Most of us view returns as taking a proactive approach at customer service, so naturally we don’t associate returns with risk. You are making your customer happy, because you failed to deliver them what was owed, and were making due. Or, because they were complaining a lot, and refunding them was the easiest way to make them happy. Or, simply because something got a little messed up and a refund was the appropriate action at the time. Whatever the case, you fixed the problem before it escalated to a chargeback. Good service right?…

Not everyone sees it the same way. When taking a look into risk assessment, there are a few flags that immediately alert that something is wrong. First off, chargebacks are the obvious one. Apart from the occasional, non-recognized name on a statement, or some other frivolous reason, a chargeback usually means your business failed to provide the service agreed upon, and you failed to make your customer happy afterwards. It is not a good thing, and should not be taken lightly, not by the customer making it, and especially not by the business receiving it. Your customer is essentially saying that you failed, and they need a higher power to correct the situation. Getting a lot of chargebacks is very bad!

Now a return, while not as severe as a chargeback, is also an indicator that you, as a business, are not living up to your end of the deal. Businesses will always have returns, customers return merchandise, customers buy the wrong products, and processors know this. But, when returns go up a lot in the dollar amount, or start becoming very frequent, Visa and MasterCard see it. Your processor sees it too, and can take action to protect their investment in you. With each return, there is a chance that you don’t have the money available in your account. Since the processing system does not check the balance in your bank account before you make a return, the processor risks paying the bill every time. As silly as it sounds, this scares processors, a lot.

What investment do they have in you?
When your processor approves your merchant account, they are taking responsibility for all of the money you process. They are financially liable for every penny. If you were to process a million dollars and have it all charged back to you, they get the bill when you cant pay. For thousands of businesses, processing millions or billions of dollars, that is a lot of money to be liable for.

How returns can tip the scale:
Since returns are often weighed into the standard chargeback ratio on the processor’s level, they can easily cause your business to break the dreaded 1% mark. For a small business, 1% is not a lot of room. Luckily, returns are usually weighted so that several returns equals one chargeback, but then again returns are far more common that chargebacks.

Conclusion:
This is not meant to scare anyone, but is it definitely something to think about especially during the post-holiday season. It would be extremely rare for a business to have any repercussion against them for slightly breaking the 1% mark once, but repeatedly breaking it will most definitely cause some negative reactions.

It is also a good idea to look at your current return policy and amend it if necessary. Things like only returning to the same card that made the purchase are not just a good idea, they will help protect you from loosing to fraud. Check out this recent post about return fraud. There are some ideas on how to handle return fraud and some good general ideas on how to handle returns.


March 9th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Simple terminals are still best for most, Great equipment can be under $200.

Filed in: Credit Card Equipment |

Credit card terminal technology is finally starting to progress into 1990’s technology. However, how much technology does it take to process a credit card?

With the exception of businesses needing to process over an Ethernet / IP connection, the simplest terminals are still the best choice for most businesses.

With the cost of higher-end terminals approaching $500 when purchased from an online retailer, what does $200 get you nowadays? For $200 or less, most businesses can get a terminal that is perfectly acceptable for their business’s processing needs. These terminals all have thermal printer, can accept PIN pads, smart card readers, check readers, contactless readers, and just about any other peripheral that you need.

The only thing that they cant do is process over an IP connection, and they cant handle some more advanced processing applications (which most businesses will never need).

Terminals under $200:

If you are in the market for a new terminal, and you are perfectly happy with processing over a standard telephone line, save yourself some money and stick to a basic terminal. Don’t let someone (including yourself) talk you into something that you don’t need, just because it is the next great thing. Apart from the price, these low cost terminals are easier to operate, more reliable, and much less expensive to replace than higher-end terminals.


March 1st, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Mastercard releases their new 100 page interchange schedule

Filed in: Industry News | 1 comment

Mastercard released on February 28th, their new interchange fee schedule. I have been looking it over for the past hour or so. Some of the core card rates are going down, but it looks like most of the rewards card tiers are going up.

Despite all of the negative attention about how complicated interchange is, Mastercard up-sized their fee schedule from 70 pages to 100 pages, but includes a small glossary obviously in attempt to simplify everything for everyone. My recommendation to simplifying this thing, is to remove about 90 pages…

Here’s the new Interchange rates effective April 2007:
April 2007 Mastercard Interchange


February 27th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

A simple PC Charge based wireless processing solution

Filed in: Credit Card Equipment, Guides, Merchant Accounts | 6 comments

PC Charge ProWe have had some renewed interest recently in wireless processing on a PC. After some research and a few experimental merchants, we found it is extremely easy to setup a laptop with some PC Processing software, a card reader, and a wireless or cellular PC card. In the end, the business can have a completely wireless credit card terminal, that has far more advanced abilities than any off the shelf wireless terminal.

Here’s what you need:

  1. Laptop – In this case the smaller the better, and it is important that it has a good battery life (> 3 Hours Preferably). Or get lots of extra batteries.
  2. PC Processing Software – I recommend PC Charge Pro for this purpose.
  3. PC Compatible Card Reader – A USB card reader is going to be the easiest to setup in this situation, but PS2 and Serial card readers are also available. There are also keyboards with attached card readers, if an external keyboard is something that could be feasible.
  4. Wireless LAN PC card or cellular PC card – The LAN card will let you process over a WiFi connection, while the cellular card allows your computer to use cellular phone networks. The cellular card would also require cellular service, but most cell phone carriers can add this to your existing cellular account.
  5. Merchant account – It is important to ensure that your merchant account provider can setup PC Charge for processing over the internet.

Why this system is great:

First off, PC charge is a very good program. It is in my opinion the best PC based processing program on the market. It is relatively cheap <$300, very easy to use, and it is compatible with just about every processing platform out there. A business can manually enter transactions on their computer, or they can add the card reader and swipe their customer’s cards into the program. The support is good and one year is now included with each license. The reporting with PC Charge is more advanced than with most terminal. PC Charge is also PCI / CISP compliant, so you wont need to worry about that at a later time.

Second, there are a lot of businesses that already have one or more existing laptops. It doesn’t take a super fast, top of the line computer to process credit cards. You could probably buy a sub $200 laptop on ebay and get more than satisfactory results with it.

Third, WiFi is almost everywhere. I see WiFi access points all over the place. A wireless PC card is really cheap, and some businesses can get away without ever needing a cellular setup. Note: Make sure that you process only on a WiFi connection that is secure. Do not connect to, or trust non-secure wireless connections. When you connect to them, anyone on that network has direct access to your computer.

The cellular problem:
Here is the only major concern that I find with this setup. When using a cellular PC card, you must also have a service with a cellular provider. Unfortunately, Verizon and Cingular charge a lot for using their wireless internet networks that allow your computer to connect to the internet. If you already have a cellular service, you may be able to add this service at an more-affordable price, but from what I have seen it isn’t really cheap. Both Verizon and Cingular offer wireless PC Internet services, and you will need to check with them to see what the monthly cost would be.

Magtek Card ReaderGetting it setup:
Assuming that you already have the laptop, the first thing to do is to get the wireless internet going on your computer. Whether you are using a WiFi card or a cellular card, you will need configure your system to connect to the internet using the method that you chose. Here’s an excellent guide on setting up a WiFi card on your computer. Setting up a cellular PC card, will be almost the same process, except there will some required software and some additional user info and passwords to enter. These will be provided by your cellular service provider.

Once you have your laptop connected to the internet, and your merchant account is setup, you will need to install the PC Charge software. This is a simple process, consisting of inserting the CD and installing the program like you would any other. PC Charge comes with one year of support, so if you run into problems, you can call to get help from PC Charge. There are also some business specific information about the processing network your business is using, so normally you will setup some of the specifics in PC charge with the assistance of your merchant account provider, or PC Charge support.

If you are planning on using a card scanner you should now attach it to your USB port. If you’re using Windows XP or better, it should automatically be detected. Otherwise go to your control panel, and use the add-remove program application. PC Charge normally will automatically use the card reader that you plug into it. If it doesn’t work, call their support and they should be able to get you going. Make sure you use a card reader that is compatible with PC Charge. There are also PS2 (Keyboard connection) versions of card readers, but I recommend the USB versions.

Finally:
Now you’re ready to go. Anywhere that you have an internet connection and enough battery to keep your computer going, you should be able to electronically process credit cards. You can get a car charger for your computer, and can add portable printers if you want to be able to print receipts. This setup may not be as compact as a wireless terminal, but it doesn’t lack anything in speed and usability.

Everyone that I have seen use this setup was extremely satisfied with it. We recently has a customer recommend it to over two hundred associates in their industry, and not one of them using it has had anything but praise for it. The setup can occasionally lead to some snags, but once everything is running properly you have a excellent processing method.

Useful References:
Card Readers Compatible with PC Charge


February 21st, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Government toying with the bankcard business

Filed in: Industry News, Merchant Accounts | 1 comment

I just read an article on greensheet “Proposals from Washington looming(Not sure how long this link will be good for) that really brought up some questionable legislation that is currently pending in Washington.

What the government is trying to do:
The government is trying to gain access to business’s revenue reporting, by requiring acquiring banks to report it directly to the IRS. What else is being proposed is some major crackdowns on the obligations that a business has if they ever do have a security breach, and possibly some incentive programs for businesses that encrypt customer data.

Why this is bad for businesses:
Businesses are currently required to report their revenue to the IRS on their own terms. With the exception of companies or individuals getting 1099’s or W2’s for certain financial gains, the reporting is done completely at the level of each individual business. Requiring the acquiring banks (think of back-end processing banks) to disclose business revenue causes some major problems. First off there, are things like refunds, returns, chargebacks, and fees that would some how need to be calculated into the revenue reporting. This makes a very difficult task and each business’s revenue will need to be dealt with almost on a personal basis. There are currently 25 million businesses in the US. While many of these are not accepting credit cards, or aren’t doing enough business to actually be considered a business in many people’s eyes, even reporting information on half of them is an enormous task. Who do you think is going to end up paying for that huge cost to report all of the information?

You guessed it, the businesses who’s revenue is being reported, YOU…

With all the hype about the government potentially stepping in and regulating interchange or at the very least, showing some interest in it, this seems like a step in the complete opposite direction. Putting the data breach topics aside which are shadowed by this, I think it is a terrible idea. Even if acquiring banks do report the information, it is still only a small part of the entire revenue stream. There’s still the rest of the revenue to account for, and in the end we end up with some mess of an aggregation from different sources, that is never going to match up.

“Some merchants fail to report accurately their gross income, including income derived from payment card transactions,” the budget proposal states. But the wording gives the IRS wiggle room to determine when reporting would not be useful. The IRS would have the authority to make exceptions when costs exceed the benefits.

At least the IRS has the final say over this, and I personally cant see any way that the benefit will outweigh the cost. Unless of course the IRS disregards the fact that it is going to be a huge monetary burden for American businesses, and decides to go with it anyway.


February 21st, 2007 by Jamie Estep

In business for 20 years and don’t need to accept credit cards

Filed in: Merchant Accounts |

I cant count the number of times that I have come across businesses that have been around for twenty or more years and just don’t need to accept credit cards. The two most common business types that I run into with this attitude are self owned auto mechanics, and small town restaurants.

RestaurantOne of our sales agents convinced a bakery owner of thirty years to finally start accepting credit cards. He lived in a small town in Colorado, with no more than 200 people in it. I have been successful for over twenty years without accepting credit cards, why would I start doing it now, he asked. It took some convincing, but finally he decided to try it out. Overnight, his sales jumped up 30%. He gained more customers in his small town, and his good customers came to his business more often. He started asking them why they started coming more often. The nearest ATM machine was several miles away, and for most, it wasn’t worth the drive to go to the ATM and then come back. For others, they just didn’t ever carry cash, so even going to the ATM machine wasn’t an option.

The simple truth of business in America is that everyone has a credit or debit card. It doesn’t matter if the town you live in has fifteen people in it, I can pretty much guarantee that most of them have a credit card. The US is moving away from paper transactions and I think it is a safe bet that at some point in the future, paper money and coins will no longer be used. What makes credit card processing for small town businesses even more successful than one would assume, is that there often isn’t a nearby bank or ATM machine. Customers that don’t have cash simply wont go to a business where they cant pay, even though they might want to buy something. Accepting credit cards provides the ability for people to shop on impulse, which is often the driving factor of many businesses. Do you think that people drive out of their way to shop at that cookie store in the mall? Or, do they smell the cookies and just ‘have to have one’ when they walk by it.

Convenience is one of the most important things to consumers in the US. If it isn’t convenient then business is lost.

For those who just don’t need to accept credit cards:
I highly recommend trying it. I have only seen a handful of businesses actually not benefit from accepting credit cards, and the reasons were not because of the area they lived in, but because they had very unusual transaction processes.

Find a provider with no contract and give it a shot for a few months. If you get nothing out of it, then I am wrong, but I think that at the very least you will have some happier customers, and you will be surprised by how many people actually want to pay with their credit card. Just because you have never used accepted credit cards and have survived, does not mean that you will not benefit from accepting them now.


February 15th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

RFID Contactless Payments vs. Smart Cards

Filed in: Credit Card Equipment, Merchant Accounts |

RFID TagI have blogged in the past about how slow the processing industry is moving towards adopting smart cards and contactless payments.

These two technologies present some major benefits and some major flaws compared to the ancient magnetic stripes that we have all come to know. For anyone not knowing what RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) contactless payments are, check out: New-wave pay plan. Smart card credit cards are credit cards with an embeded smart chip in them in addition to or in replacement of the magnetic stripe. The smart chip can securely store a lot of information compared to a traditional credit card.

Now, at some point I think that either smart cards, or RFID contactless payments are going to make a jump. If I were to bet on it, I would have to bet on contactless payments.

Here’s why contactless payments are going to be ‘the next big thing’ in payment processing!

Smart cards have been around for quite a while now. But, they have never gotten anywhere in payment processing in the US. They offer superior security compares to the current situation, so much that a person’s PIN number can be safely stored on the card itself. Smart cards have the potential to make the entire process of processing, much simpler.

However, smart cards are expensive, and they have never been that much better to justify the cost, time, and difficulty required to replace magnetic cards, to really catch on. They aren’t that much faster than normal credit cards if any, and how much information do you really want to store on your credit card?

RFID TagContactless payments on the other hand are in a position to become the standard, very quickly. Nowadays, processing cards is all about speed and convenience. I regularly see mom-and-pop businesses setting up their terminals through an Ethernet connection, because it is so much faster than dial up. Fast food restaurants are always looking for ways to speed up the ordering process. Sonic recently started using QSR self serve terminals at many of their locations. For these high output businesses where budgeting is calculated on hundredths of a penny, even a few seconds extra per person costs a lot in the long run.

Contactless payments simply have several key ingredients in every necessary sector which sets them apart from Smart Cards.

First off, contactless processing is cool.
Swiping your key chain or wallet over a terminal to pay is much more amusing than handing your card to a cashier. MasterCard curently uses a keychain tag for their contactless program. The cell phone ringtone industry is currently grossing more than 3 Billion dollars per year in the US. Believe me when I say that the coolness factor is a big part of it for consumers.

Second, it is more secure.
Since the card never leaves your hand, there is very little chance that your information can be illegally recorded. Yes it is true that someone could potentially intercept the radio signal that transmits your information from the card to the terminal, but this information is encrypted, and the equipment to do it is a little more complicated than a pen and paper. If you’re really worried about it, then you can get a RFID shield. Information on RFID payment cards is encrypted anyway, so if someone decides to scan your card while you’re walking by, the data wont be readable.

Third, they are very, very, fast.
RFID is significantly faster than swiping a card through a machine and even faster than processing a smart card. It takes only a second or two to hold the card over the reader, then green light you’re done. This will please even the most time-conscious McDonalds restaurant, and they don’t even have to reach out to grab the card.

Four, the technology is already there.
Contactless RFID systems have been used in many country’s train and other transportation systems for years. RFID is a well developed technology that will migrate perfectly into credit card processing.

Fifth, magnetic strips are old, have limited storage, are unsecure, and simply suck.
Magnetic strips were first added to credit cards in 1979 before the first IBM PC was created. Lets just say that technology has moved on a little bit, and sometimes old technologies are due to be retired. magnetic strips can only hold a few bytes of data on them, and they aren’t encrypted. Anyone with a computer and a card reader can get all of the data on the card. With a RFID or Smart Card the data can be encrypted so that it cannot be read by simply swiping it onto a computer. When you scratch your stripe it stops working. Magnetic stripes are very weak and can easily be destroyed. Even placing your wallet neat a magnet or a checkout scanner can wipe the data on your card. Stripes were great when they were invented, but it’s time to move processing into the 21st century.

Sixth, they are cheap.
With smart cards coming in at several dollars per card, the sub $1 price of RFID tags is another hugely important factor for the banks that issue the cards. Replacing millions of cards costs a lot of money, and by saving over a dollar per card, banks will be much more likely to take the initiative.

Contactless programs already being pushed:
Mastercard Paypass
Amex ExpressPay
Visa Contactless

With the increased awareness in transaction security from consumers and businesses, and an ever present belief that things need to go faster, contactless cards are in the position to become the standard. Obviously this change will take years to complete, but when compared to smart cards, contactless look to be far superior, and in a far better position to make a move.

Related Articles:
Contactless payments take hold


February 13th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Credit Cards for Illegal Immigrants

Filed in: Industry News | 1 comment

I’m not sure what to think of the statement released by Bank of America this week.

NEW YORK – Bank of America Corp. has begun offering credit cards to customers without Social Security numbers, typically illegal immigrants, the Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday.

Not to get into a political debate, but it comes across as a bit crazy for a bank to start doing this. I would think that there would be some really high risk that the card holder may never pay back the debt that is due. I also have to questions whether fair practices and rates will be given for such circumstances.

Link to the Whole Article


February 9th, 2007 by Jamie Estep

Canadian Merchant Accounts

Filed in: International, Merchant Accounts |

Forewarning, This is one of the few posts on this blog that is going to contain some self promotion, but just a little.

We recently began taking the steps to move into Canada to provide services to Canadian businesses. We will be one of the first independent ISOs in Canada, and treading this new path is very exciting. I have learned a lot about the differences between the way merchant services work in Canada and the US, and it looks to me like Canada is moving in a much more positive direction compared to the US. Both for providers, and for businesses.

US vs. Canada
The biggest difference in consumer card use in Canada, is that PIN debit takes up a majority of transactions. In the US, PIN debit is only a percentage of total credit and debit transactions. It is growing in acceptance and popularity, but it still has a long way to go. This PIN debit use is one of the shaping factors in the entire Canadian system.

The positives in Canada: The best thing I have seen regarding the Canadian processing scene, is the interchange fee structure. In the US there are literally hundreds of interchange fees and levels, and the entire setup is extremely confusing. Canada is completely opposite. There are about 10 interchange levels, and that’s it. Retail, MOTO / Ecommerce, ARU, Corporate and a few levels based on processing volume and nothing else. What is also great is that there is no transaction fee for Canadian processing. There is a processing percentage, and we’re done. No transaction fee, no other surcharge fee, just a processing percentage.

Oh yeah, there are no downgrade charges in Canada!

The negatives: The processing equipment situation in Canada is at best, very ugly. In the US you can go online and buy processing equipment at near cost, from a variety of online retailers. I know this because the primary online function of my company’s website is equipment sales. In Canada, the situation is again, completely opposite. In Canada you must purchase pre-encrypted equipment from the bank you are going to process through. To purchase a terminal that would cost about $300 in the US, you will pay at least $1200 in Canada, and most likely $2000. Equipment from the US in not compatible in Canada either (I learned this one the hard way). Leasing and renting are most common and offer a somewhat reasonable monthly cost, but compared to the US, it is far more expensive for equipment. Leases and rentals in Canada start at about $50 per month for basic equipment and go up to about $100+ per month for higher-end and wireless equipment. Ouch!!

Unfortunately, there’s no way to get around it that we have found. The banks control the encryption, and businesses must have encrypted equipment to process or they lose more than half their customers. Hopefully the equipment conundrum will change in the next few years, but for now businesses are stuck dealing with the bank’s nasty equipment pricing.

Now the self promotion:
Since we don’t yet have a significant presence in Canada we are looking for businesses, websites, and people in Canada that are interested in becoming merchant account sales agents there. You will be able to offer businesses rates starting at about 2% for retail businesses, and about 2.5% for online and MOTO businesses. These rates should beat most any bank’s quoted rate in Canada. We are looking for friendly, honest people that are not wanting to rip off a bunch of businesses, because that’s not how we do business. Check out our Canadian Agent Program for more information if you are interested.

And Finally:
It’s very exciting to see Canada open it’s doors to an ISO structure. I’m not sure how soon, or even how probable it will be for the banks there to ease up on their equipment monopoly, but the fee structure is looking good enough to almost completely offset it.

Canada has a very simple and efficient system, and that is not something that I would like to see change. The last thing Canada needs is an interchange table with three hundred different levels on it, and thousands of confused and angry business owners that have no idea how to understand it.